OutsourceWorld: Business Strategies - Profitable Partnerships

Jacob K. Javits Convention Center
October 15-16
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OutsourceWorld
OutsourceWorld

2007 Conference Program

"Global Sourcing at Crossroads - Managing Risks and Increasing Business Value"
Now Presenting the 2007 Keynote Speaker:
Steven J. Bandrowczak, CIO Nortel Networks

Steven J. Bandrowczak is chief information officer (CIO) for Nortel.

Bandrowczak is responsible for Nortel's information technology strategy and operations, leading the Information Services group, and overseeing Nortel's internal network infrastructure, business applications and data security.

Bandrowczak will lead Nortel's IT department, leveraging the breadth of the Company's own technology and networking capabilities to transform business networks, remove barriers to efficiency, productivity and growth and create opportunities for new revenues and services.

Prior to joining Nortel, Bandrowczak served as CIO for Lenovo Group, a global producer of PC products and value-added professional services. At Lenovo, he helped lead the company through the initial stages of its $11 billon IBM spin-off in 2005, enacting a 24-month plan to build the company's IT infrastructure. His experience also includes serving as executive vice president and worldwide CIO for DHL Worldwide, a global market leader in the international express and logistics industry. Previously, he spent 14 years with Avnet in a variety of IT roles, culminating as CIO for the electronics distributor.

In 2004, Bandrowczak was named one of the Top 100 CIO's by Computerworld. He holds a B.S. in Computer Science from Long Island University, C.W. Post and is based at Nortel's New York office.

DAY 1
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 24
9:15
Room A
Opening remarks by Conference Chairs
Dr. Wendell Jones & Fred Mapp
9:30
Room A
Keynote Session "Making the Global Delivery Model Work"
Steven Bandrowczak, CIO, Nortel Networks
Steven J. Bandrowczak, currently CIO at Nortel, will launch our conference with a keynote capturing his diverse experiences in making the Global IT Delivery Model work while at Lenovo, DHL and Avnet. Today, technology and abundant bandwidth has leveled the playing field, allowing IT organizations to select the best qualified partner to support their business requirements whether in China, India or anywhere across the globe. This "flatworld" CIO will share his insights, strategies and tactics that are essential for executives to succeed in their Sourcing initiatives. This is accomplished through the strengthening of their bargaining position and building globally dispersed yet collaborative teams while mitigating risks, improving flexibility, and enhancing business value.
10:15 COFFEE BREAK
10:30
Room A
Plenary Session: Building Extended Enterprises through Globalization of Services
Claude Marais, Partner, TPI
Dan Mahlebashian, Chief Contracting Officer, IS&S, General Motors
This session will examine the latest elements of change in outsourcing strategy observed through a leading Advisory firm's industry research and a Fortune 50 company's own sourcing experiences. The speakers will debate the changes in terms of global composition, nature of the outsourcing transactions, and management of outsourcing environments. We will also highlight certain hidden trends in outsourcing management that suggest it is at the cusp of experiencing the same scrutiny and evolution similar to what other corporate functions have experienced over the past two decades. Finally, we will look at how companies are embracing the change and positioning themselves, through utilization of global services and resources, to re-invent their core organization and stay ahead of their competition. Whether you are a corporate leader or an outsourcing practitioner, this session will provide valuable insights on how extended organizations of tomorrow will be run.
11:10
Room A
CIO Roundtable: Global Sourcing at CrossRoads
Moderated by: Abbie Lundberg, Editor in Chief, CIO Magazine
    Russ Finney, CIO, Tokyo Electron
    Steven Bandrowczak, CIO, Nortel Networks
    Tsvi Gal, CTO Deutsche Bank Asset Management
This will be a roundtable exchange of thoughts, ideas, issues, challenges and solutions that are currently facing the outsourcing sector. From an end-user's perspective what are the most significant trends, drivers, business models, issues and risks that impact a CIO's decision. Covering both IT and BPO domains and providing a global perspective (as Outsourcing is now almost synonymous with Offshoring) this power-packed panel of CIO's will share their learning and experiences. The takeaways would be - Yes, Outsourcing is an important arrow in a CIO's quiver, but at same time it has become much more complex as a discipline. So how can they manage the risks and downsides while maximizing the business value and achieving their overall corporate objectives.
12:00 LUNCH
1:00
Room A
Different Strokes for Different Companies: Outsourcing vs. Captives
Moderated by: Paul Schmidt, Partner, TPI
    Mike Kennaugh, Managing Director, Applications, United Airlines
    Neelesh Prahbu, Global Resource Manager, CIT Group, Inc.
As the use of offshore outsourcing matures, an increasing number of organizations are selecting Captive Centers. Typically driven by a detailed financial analysis, Captive Centers can appear to be an easy decision, but execution can be challenging. This session will focus on corporate decision-making strategy relative to 3rd party vs. captive offshore operations. Using current market research, a review of current trends related to internal captive vs. 3rd party outsourcing operations will be provided. Emerging geographies, processes, and vertical industry trends will also be highlighted. An interactive panel discussion will follow the trends introduction, emphasizing audience participation. The panelists will discuss the comparative risks, benefits and disadvantages of an offshore Captive vs. Outsourcing; prevalent business models in Outsourcing and Captives; and latest trends - are companies cashing out of their captives? Can Captives compete on talent and costs?
1:30
Room A
Country Showcase: China
Moderated by: Cyrill Eltschinger, CEO, I.T. United
    Mme. Cheng Yuhua, Deputy Director, Beijing Municipal
    Bureau of Commerce
2:05
Room A
Country Showcase: Jiangsu Province - The China Advantage
Fei Shaoyun, Deputy Director General of China Jiangsu Provincial Department of Foreign Trade & Economic Cooperation
Ma Minglong, Chairman, Suzhou Industrial Park Administrative Committee
China has rapidly emerged as the most promising destination for outsourcing of IT and Business Process functions. What have been the major drivers behind the emergence of China and how is it positioning itself within the global sourcing landscape? The Country showcase will feature eminent speakers from China's Ministry that guides this industry, and from Jiangsu, the fastest growing province in China. Learn about the distinct advantages of China and how a combination of a talented labor pool, world class infrastructure, a dominant domestic market and rapid investments is making China the number one alternative to India.
2:45 COFFEE BREAK
Track 1: Global Sourcing and Delivery Models
3:00
Room A
Navigating the Multi-Shore Model - How to Choose the Right Solution
Moderated by: Stan LePeak, MD, EquaTerra
    Mark Pfeiffer, EVP, Teleperformance
    Dr. Khoa Nguyen, Elilink
    Andy Weitz, SVP gDev
With a plethora of choices available, it has never been more important to make the right decision when it comes to selecting a destination for outsourcing of IT and business services. Also equally important is determining WHAT to outsource WHERE and how to successfully engage in a multi-shore model. How to assess the comparative benefits of various regions and cities, balance risks vs. benefits and determining the optimum fit based on the company's specific business requirements. Some issues to be discussed will include the less obvious factors, like currency risks (e.g. dollar devaluation vs. local currencies), Intellectual Property protection, rate of return on investment, disclosure of personal information and local regulatory climates, etc.
3:45
Room A
Saturation in India vs. Maturity in China
Moderated by: Soumitra Rathod, VP Worldwide IT Sourcing, the McGraw Hill Companies
    Cyrill Eltschinger, CEO, I.T. UNITED
    Dr. A.M. Gondane, Deputy Consul General of India
This session will be structured as a moderated debate. India is yesterday's story and China tomorrow's. Or is that a myth? Despite reports of rising costs, wage inflation and attrition, India still sees a healthy growth rate. On the other hand, China is fast becoming a mature destination but still faces language and IPR issues. What are the comparative benefits between India and China? Is China the next India? How is India maintaining its edge in this competitive environment?
4:30
Room A
Mauritius - The Knowledge Isle with Unique Offshore Advantage
Etienne Sinatambou, Minister of Information Technology & Telecommunications, Republic of Mauritius
4:50
Room A
Diary of a Call Center Executive - Travails and Success stories
Nicholas Nesbitt, CEO, KenCall
This interesting session will feature the personal journey of a senior Call Center executive who has seen various sides of this evolving industry, as a leading executive at Qwest and then as an entrepreneur who decided to set up his own firm. Having gathered experience in managing and sourcing call centers globally, Nik will share the challenges and issues as well as successes that he has faced and tackled. Currently running a leading Call center based out of Kenya, Nik will highlight how location is increasingly becoming immaterial provided you have the right set of skills, a nurturing environment and a seasoned team.
5:15
Room A
Day 1 Closing remarks
Dr. Wendell Jones & Fred Mapp
5:30
Expo Hall
Cocktail Reception - All Attendees Welcome
Sponsored by: "SOURCE CODE CHINA-The New Global Hub of IT Outsourcing", by Cyrill Eltschinger, CEO, I.T. UNITED
Drinks, Entertainment and Book Signing
Track 2: Sourcing and Relationship Management
2:00
Room B
The 4 Ps in the Outsourcing Pod: Place, Price, Process and People
Russ Finney, CIO, Tokyo Electron
What differentiates a successful outsourcing engagement from one that turns into a nightmare? Answers to this and other questions will be delivered in this track that deals with both long-term strategic and day-to-day tactical issues related to outsourcing decision-making and management. Outsourcing executives, practitioners, consultants as well as project managers will learn about success strategies, decision levers, risk management and other best practices to ensure that their outsourcing initiatives achieve the desired objectives.
2:30
Room B
Negotiating a Sound Contract: Recipe for Success
Mark Grossman, Technology Lawyer and Partner, Law Offices of Mark Grossman
A contract is no guarantee of success, but it is almost certain that an ill conceived and incomplete contract sows the seeds for problems that and create trouble spots in the relationship. In this session two experienced outsourcing advisors, an attorney and a consultant, present and discuss the necessary ingredients for negotiating and producing a sound outsourcing contract.
3:00 COFFEE BREAK
3:15
Room B
Outsourcing Relationship Management: Excellence through Alignment
    Moderated by: Dr. Wendell Jones
    Vinay Gupta, CEO, Janeeva
    Irfan Burney, VP, Credit Suisse
    Carolyn Atkinson-Featherston, Director Outsourcing, ITSS
    Johnson & Johnson
Organizations undertaking information technology and business process outsourcing typically are very focused on "doing the deal." This involves assessing service providers, determining geographies from which to source services, developing contracts, defining service levels, and a myriad of other tasks. Yet, arguably the hardest part of outsourcing occurs only after the deal is -done, which should include performing ongoing outsourcing management and governance. This presentation focuses on why aligning, understanding and agreeing upon the objectives of the total outsourcing project are critical to its success.
4:00
Room B
The Rise of Infrastructure Outsourcing
Moderated by: Fred Mapp, CEO of Quality Service Solutions, Former CIO of AMD
    Russ Finney, CIO, Tokyo Electron
    Anthony Wanger, Senior Partner, I/O Data Centers
    Douglas Ash, Vice President & Principal Deputy, Lockheed Martin
'To outsource or not to outsource?' continues to be the question. What happens when applications, servers, call centers and data centers are managed remotely through outsourcing? What benefits can you reasonably expect from outsourcing and having your services managed remotely? What are some of the challenges managing an outsourced relationship? How do you decide whether outsourcing or offshoring are right for your organization? What are some of the lessons learned from companies that have already made the decision to outsource and vendors who provide remote services? The panelists in this session will provide insight on managing your services remotely.
4:45
Room B
Legal Issue of Global Sourcing
Moderated by: Richard Raysman, Partner, Thelen Reid Brown Raysman & Steiner LLP
    Carolyn Atkinson-Featherston, Director Outsourcing, ITSS
    Johnson & Johnson
    Vishal Gandhi, Partner, Gandhi & Associates
    Ma Weidong, General Manager, OKI Software Technology
    Co., Ltd.
Since the mid-1990s major US companies have been sending work offshore, primarily to India, but also to China, Eastern Europe, Ireland, Israel, and the Philippines. The most attractive aspect has been quality product at affordable rates. The legal issues can vary from country to country. This session therefore focuses on the legal issues involved with taking work offshore and the differences among the leading offshore destinations.
5:30
Expo Hall
Cocktail Reception - All Attendees Welcome
Sponsored by: "SOURCE CODE CHINA-The New Global Hub of IT Outsourcing", by Cyrill Eltschinger, CEO, I.T. UNITED
Drinks, Entertainment and Book Signing
Vendor Track: Bonus Sessions for all vendors (All Service Provider Attendees Welcome)
10:30
Room B
Competing and Winning Customers in a Mature Market
Moderated by: Anupam Govil, CEO, Global Equations
    Donna Kent, SVP Global Services, Televerde
Penetrating mature markets is challenging for SMB companies due to intense competition from enterprises with well-established brands and entrenched customer relationships. But "challenging" is quite different from "impossible," so for companies with a solid value proposition, hard to ignore differentiators, a burning desire to acquire customers, and a willingness to try new approaches, the payoff is worth the effort.

By outsourcing one or more functions that have been traditionally held close to the vest by many companies, tremendous - and previously elusive - benefits may be gained, including objective and actionable market insight, a much clearer vision into immediate and future sales opportunities, and improved and measurable ROI. And they can be accomplished while enhancing - not abdicating - the all-important brand and customer engagement experience. Learn about the thought process that drives vendor-change decisions in the mature market, why outsourcing customer-acquisition capabilities is a smart strategic move, and the lessons learned by the companies that have gained from this experience.
11:15
Room B
Small to Mid-Market Focus: Vendor Success Strategies
    Ram Iyer, CEO, Argea
    Eddy Tan, GM, Business Process Outsourcing Sales of NCS
    Group
    Gilda Odera, Managing Director, Skyweb-Evans Company Ltd
How Outsourcing vendors think small to get big. Many vendors have made the Mid-market their niche and developed a scalable model that allowed them to grow with their client's needs. This session will feature examples of successful client-vendor relationships in the mid-market space and how this sector is fast becoming the next big growth opportunity.
DAY 2
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 25
9:00
Room A
Day 1 Summary and Day 2 remarks by Conference Chairs
Dr. Wendell Jones & Fred Mapp
9:05
Room A
Plenary Session: Return on Outsourcing Investment - Myth vs. Reality
Moderated by: Jim Murphy, VP, Gartner Consulting
    Pankaj Sharma, Director of Finance, Electronic Arts, Inc.
    Russ Finney, CIO, Tokyo Electron
    Steven Bandrowczak, CIO, Nortel Networks
    Soumitra Rathod, VP Worldwide IT Outsourcing, The McGraw-Hill
    Companies
As a key strategic decision for many companies, outsourcing raises the question of how to measure financial success. Companies use financial measures to evaluate how well a company is performing. These include internal rate of return (IRR), return on investment (ROI), cash flow analysis and break even. In this session, experienced CFO and CIO panelists will discuss how these measures impact their decision-making as well as management of the contract. Does Outsourcing really pay off financially in the long run or is just a balance sheet exercise? These valuable insights will help sourcing executives in making better decisions and balancing short term as well as long term corporate objectives.
9:50
Room A
Editor's Roundtable - Bridging the Divide: Is Outsourcing a Panacea or the Trojan Horse?
Moderated by: David Andelman, Executive Editor, Forbes.com
    Steve Hamm, Senior Writer, BusinessWeek
    Richard Murphy, Assistant Managing Editor of Fortune Small
    Business Magazine
    Rehka Vatsa, CEO, FSOkx
The debate about whether outsourcing is good for companies and the economy has been subdued in the last few years. However, this issue is again bound to be on the front burner in 2008. Regardless of this, the outsourcing landscape is littered with examples of initiatives that were highly successful as well as others that were outright failures. Is outsourcing a key strategic lever intended to keep organizations competitive or is it being used as an excuse by firms to manage their balance sheets and reduce workforce to meet short term Wall Street expectations? An eminent panel of editors of major magazines and journals will debate this contentious issue and provide their views on how Global Sourcing will be perceived in the coming year.Keynote Session: The future of BPO - The What, Where & How
10:30
Room A
Finding Your Next Outsourcing Haven - The Hottest Emerging Destinations
Moderated by: Peter Ryan, Call Center Director, Data monitor
    Lev Saks, CEO, Luxoft
    Robert Janssen, CEO, ViaForum Brazil
    Mr Baljinder Sharma, CEO, Singhi Advisors Ltd.
Globalization has brought about many new and emerging destinations that can stake a claim to being the latest outsourcing hub. Whether it is the Latin/Central America or North Africa or Eastern Europe or Far East Asia, today there are far more choices than ever before. This session will highlight some of the regions and countries that are emerging outsourcing hotspots with great future potential, niche capabilities and unique differentiators. Everyone that is in the process of offshoring will benefit from the fresh ideas and options that will be brought out by the panelists from different regions across the global sourcing landscape.
11:15 COFFEE BREAK
Track 1: Global Sourcing and Delivery Models
11:30
Room A
Country Showcase: Beyond Offshore - Melbourne, Australia's Competitive Advantage
Peter Ryan, Call Center Director, Data monitor
Gary Lowe, Senior Department Executive, NEC Australia Pty Ltd
As newer outsourcing destinations emerge, buyers are faced with far more choices than every before. Offshoring is usually considered synonymous with developing nations, whereas in reality even developed countries like Canada and Australia offer distinct advantages sometimes comparable or perhaps even superior to many popular offshore regions. In this session we will discuss the competitive advantage of Australia as an outsourcing hub and specifically focus on the city of Melbourne in the State of Victoria. An experienced outsourcing executive from a leading international firm in Melbourne will provide a case study on how and why they chose that region and what sourcing executives can expect when they consider this destination.
12:00
Room A
Winning the Competitive Game with KPO
Moderated by: Anupam Govil, CEO, Global Equations
    Bobby Varanasi, Outsourcing Malaysia
    Jeff Pinkham, CEO, BPOfnA
    Raj Nair, Chairman, Avalon Consulting
The Rise of Knowledge Services: Knowledge Process Outsourcing or KPO is distinct from and more advanced than ITO and BPO. Companies are outsourcing their core competencies - research and analytics. This session will provide insights on a knowledge services globalization trend that crosses the boundary between the core and the context. Which industries, processes and delivery models are prevalent and what are the major benefits and risks? Where are the best places for delivery of KPO services and how are companies leveraging this trend to maintain business agility and competitiveness?
Track 2: Sourcing and Relationship Management
11:30
Room B
From Success Strategies to Pitfalls - The Art and Science of BPO
Moderated by: Lisa Ross, Founder, FAO Research
    John Halvey, Partner, Milbank Tweed
    Jon Brock, CEO, Utilipoint
    Tom Waller, Head of Global Procurement & PMO: F&A
    Outsourcing, Electronic Arts
    George Evans, Managing Director, Outsource Partners International
This session will provide strategic insights as well as actual case studies of offshore BPO transactions - what worked and what didn't. The panel led by a well known Research firm will offer valuable advice on Success strategies to adopt and Pitfalls to avoid. From assessing your organization for Offshore readiness to making the deal work with the vendor - this could be your definitive BPO guidebook.
12:15
Room B
Managing the Outsourcing Deal: An Essential Primer
Moderated by: Fred Mapp, CEO, Quality Service Solutions
    George Logemann, President, Logemann Consulting
    Gerard Insall, Vice president Data Operations-IT, Avis Rent A Car
    System, LLC
    Donna J. Kent, Senior VP- Global Services, Televerde
It's fair to say that all outsourcing contracts are like marriage: they have ups and downs. What matters is the willingness to make "The Deal" work. This session identifies that a level of commitment, from both the outsourcer and its customers, requires plenty of work before and after a contract is signed. IT executives, analysts and vendors all agree that the success or failure of an outsourcing engagement has little to do with technology. Instead, they require effective communication of business requirements, sharp negotiation skills, good project management, and adeptness at dealing with people and troubleshooting problems.
1:00
Room A
LUNCH
Track 3: Industry Focus
1:45
Room A
What's Ahead for Financial Services Outsourcing
Moderated by: Peter Nag, Head of Global Wealth Management Offshore Initiative, Citigroup
    Gil Mermelstein, Managing Director, BearingPoint
    N. Venu Gopal, CEO and Co-founder of Aithent, Inc.
The Financial Services Industry has always been the leader in offshore outsourcing. As offshore destinations saturate and delivery models mature, what are the major institutions doing to stay ahead of the curve and to continue to derive incremental benefits from their initiatives? This power-packed session would include sourcing decision makers from banks, insurance and mortgage firms. Are there outsourcing and software companies which are developing and specializing in processes and systems to service the finance industry? Where is the Financial Services industry headed in terms of new outsourcing business models?
2:35
Room A
Small to Mid-Market Focus: Outsourcing for Agility
    Ram Iyer, CEO, Argea
    Rui Huang, CEO, HopeRun Software
    Denise Gerstsenfield, Director of Customer Service, Diamonds
    International
    Paula DeScisciolo, Business Operations Consultant
Why should Small to Mid-sized companies outsource? What are the best ways for these companies to approach outsourcing? The speakers will address the questions of economies of scale, time to market and competitive differentiators for mid-market firms. As outsourcing goes downstream, smaller firms can achieve agility and acquire a competitive edge through carefully designed outsourcing partnerships. Hear from panelists who have done that successfully or advised on similar deals.
3:15 COFFEE BREAK
Track 4: Managing Risk and Increasing Business Value
2:00
Room B
Managing Risk through Effective Governance
Richard Raysman, Partner, Thelen Reid Brown Raysman & Steiner LLP
Danny Ertel, Partner, Vantage Partners
According to one major survey of 432 of the fastest growing US companies, the researchers concluded that businesses that outsource grow faster, larger, and more profitably than those who do not. Why do most companies succeed while some companies fail? This diverse panel of outsourcing practitioners, consultants and attorneys will address how successful companies reduce their risks and achieve sustained value from outsourcing through effective governance of the outsourcing relationship.
2:30
Room B
Avoiding Outsourcing failures - Knowing your Total Cost of Offshoring (TCO)
Michelle Watson Roscitt, Advisory, The Robb Group
Lalit Dhingra, CEO, NIIT
An outsourcing customer's revenue, profit and value are immediately at risk when vendors fail to identify and address the revenue generation and revenue growth dependencies between the departments being outsourced. Next generation service providers are beginning to deploy a more holistic approach to their engagement models. The approach includes diagnostics that rapidly identify and analyze revenue and cost creation activities, dependencies and success factors across their customer's company, client base, supply chain, and in the areas of business being outsourced. This session will discuss how TCO (Total Cost of Offshoring) is often underestimated by the service provider as well as the customer and the reasons behind that. Also discussed will be hidden costs like internal overheads, currency fluctuations and ambiguities in the contract. Panelists will provide a review of integration, outsourcing engagement models and practices to maximize benefits and minimize risks of failures.
3:05 COFFEE BREAK
General Sessions (Bonus Sessions- All Attendees Welcome)
3:20
Room A
Climbing up the Value Chain: Escaping the Commoditization Trap
Steve Hamm, Senior Writer, BusinessWeek
The top Indian info tech outsourcers have emerged as major players on the global stage, but now incumbents such as IBM and Accenture can match their low-cost services delivered from India. So the challenge is for the Indian IT and BPO companies to climb the value ladder--widening their portfolios and bringing more vital and differentiated services to clients. They're doing it through acquisitions, innovation, and consulting.
3:50
Room A
Private Equity- The New Trigger to Globalization
Ed Caso, Managing Director and Senior IT/BPO Services Analyst, Wachovia Capital Markets, LLC
Raj Gupta, Partner, Flatworld Capital
Private Equity is having a profound impact on the shape of the outsourcing sector. On one hand it is reshaping how companies streamline their operations and costs through innovative outsourcing initiatives. On the other hand, PE funds are increasingly investing in or consolidating global outsourcing firms to leverage scale, cross-utilization of resources and process efficiencies. In recent times, many large outsourcing firms have been given a new infusion of life through buy-out and growth investment funds. This session will go behind the drivers of this trend and provide insights on why end-users and service providers cannot afford to ignore this force.
4:25
Room A
Innovate like Edison: Aligning Outsourcing and Innovation to Achieve Sustained Customer Value
Sarah Caldicott, Author of "Innovate like Edison" - great grandniece of Thomas Edison
Frederic Boulanger, President, Macadamian
Sarah Miller Caldicott, 20-year marketing veteran and great grandniece of Thomas Edison, will highlight results of her 3-year research effort into the world-changing methods of America's greatest innovator. Sarah's presentation includes insights from her new book, Innovate Like Edison: The Success System of America's Greatest Inventor, describing how Edison's Five Competencies of Innovationä provide a framework for more effective outsourcing decisions. With more companies outsourcing key segments of their core operations, Sarah will describe how to ensure innovation momentum and customer value are maintained in an outsourced environment. Sarah's presentation will also include a case study demonstrating how a U.S.-based firm accelerated launch of a new product by outsourcing one leg of its core competency to a Canadian firm.
4:55
Room A
Closing Remarks
Dr. Wendell Jones & Fred Mapp




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